Chat Conversation (edited). Comments (deeper than "wow, you really are nerds") appreciated.
Too lazy to actually write a blog post, so the actual questions and claims under discussion are italicized. These would normally comprise the post.


Part One: Ec and Evidence

12:57 PM

me: http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2007/12/how-do-right-and-left-differ.html

i'm increasing my knowledge of econ by reading the blogs of ec profs @ harvard

12:58 PM i think you'll enjoy that post

ridiculous: lmao okay

I'll go read it

12:59 PM haha very nice

me: ok.

so my question is:

1:00 PM has there been any experimental or controlled observational evidence favoring either side, on any one of those issues, and if not, how do people choose a side rationally?

1:01 PM ridiculous: Idk if there's been any evidence of either kind. I suppose there has been somewhere in the world. Maybe Columbia. They do studies 24/7.

Rationally? What's that all about?

1:02 PM hmm.. Can a person claim allegiance to either the right or left unconditionally?

that just strikes me as narrow minded

me: with data? like how there are enormous ec think-tanks, and ec advisors, and people who spend their lives theorizing about ec, but how do they gain their perspective, with no (assumed) experimental data?

of course not unconditionally.

1:03 PM ridiculous: life is experimental data for ec, is it not?

me: yes

--tangent about textbooks, small sample sizes, teachers, and conclusions--

1:08 PM me: so, back to experimental evidence and ec. has there been?

ridiculous: I dunno. Its not something I've read a lot about.

But now I'm going to start looking...

I want to learn too much. There isn't enough time for this.

1:09 PM Well... if I don't sleep there is

perfect!

me: ha.

Part Two: Social Psych and Authority (and rational thought)

1:11 PM me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_H._Frank

interesting theories your author has

1:12 PM and although they strike me as "rational" and "correct," i have seen no experimental evidence. how did i make my split-second decision to agree?

ridiculous: I think you should start reading about social psychology

1:13 PM me: except i don't want figuring out why i agreed to be an end in itself

i want it to be a way to make ec more evidence-based

ridiculous: People might have been conditioned unknowingly, based on their childhood environment, to think a certain way. Thus, to see certain things as "rational" and "correct" without real evidence.

okay....

me: or (fill_in_field_of_knowledge_here) more evidence-based

ridicuous: you just want life to be evidence based

1:14 PM throws irrationality at you

1:16 PM me: no, i think that although social heuristics where taking on the beliefs of authority without demanding evidence makes sense on an evolutionary scale, and in social contexts, when decisions affect a country or global system, choices should be rational, evidence-based and experimentally proven with low probability of error to be the optimal solution

ridiculous: yeah but see, life doesn't work that way.

otherwise our president, and several others, would never have been voted into office.

1:17 PM Are you going to set about trying to singlehandedly change the facts of life?

me: because although the cost of a sub-optimal solution in social contexts is less that the cost of questioning authority, on a national scale, the cost of a sub-optimal solution is much greater

why not?

ridiculous: This is very true.

1:18 PM Sounds like a fun adventure- I'll join the brigade.

me: ha.

this conversation looks like an eventual blog post

i'll get around to it. maybe.

not like it matters.

--tangent about how I am lazy--

Part Three: We are abnormal.

ridiculous:

1:21 PM I just re-read this conversation. It just struck me as to how nerdy I must come off to people that don't know me. You know... when I start referencing the NY Times or The Economist to back up any argument

Or even people that do. But to them it doesn't matter.

1:22 PM me: you need to reference the nytimes and economist! it elevates the level of discourse!

:-P

ridiculous: It's why I do it.

Part 4: Alternative Theories

ridiculous, quoting an econ book:"in studying choice under scarcity, we'll usually begin with the premise that people are rational"

hee

1:29 PM me: so right wing...

ridiculous: yeah

me: it is an issue here that the intro ec class is very conservative

there is an alternate course affectionately referred to as "Comenomics"

1:30 PM ridiculous: its a similar issue we have

except our alternate class is taught by a prof everyone hates

1:31 PM me: sad.

ridiculous: yes. I know.

me: until one is experimentally "proven," they should both be taught.

ridiculous: well yes. they are both being taught

me: wow, i sound kinda like a Creationist. except by proof i mean evidence.

1:32 PM and not god coming down and telling everyone that he didn't actually design everything

ridiculous: but the thing is- this class has a right wing book.. that the prof didn't require. so he may not be ultra conservative. Also- people tend to like him lots.

although.. it'd be pretty ridiculous if god walked into a baptist church and told them all that everything they were preaching was wrong.

1:33 PM me: hee hee

"hey dudes, it's cool to see how my algorithm turned out."

ridiculous:

lmao

1:34 PM baptists faint from shock/die of heart attacks

Grandma Arrested at McDonald's Drive-Thru. ...Seriously?

So I heard about this from my dad, who just saw it on ABC Action News, so I went and found it online.
http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=e426606f-0a50-4312-bd00-e3c8cd522a7f
and
http://www.northcountrygazette.org/news/2008/01/19/not_lovin_it/
and
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jan/20/me-french-fry-stop-lands-grandma-in-jail/

While this is completely random, I felt like it deserved some airtime. Honestly, maybe she was blocking some cars, but does the police's 5-10 minute wait really decrease his quality of life that much that he felt the need to arrest grandma? Also- she might have cursed at him, but that's also within her constitutional rights. Just because he couldn't deal with being pwned by an elderly lady doesn't mean he needs to get so official. And really? One has to wait in line at a drive-thru before getting served? There's a revelation.

Random comments to bring to attention:
On the TBO site:
URY914 : "You have no idea what the lady said to the cop when he asked her to move up. What if she said, "I ain't movin' for no GD babyface punka$$ cop like you. I want my GD fries and I got a gun under my seat." I'm taking the cop's side on this one. Maybe one day you a-holes will need a cop's help with something."

Just imagining Grandma saying that cracks me up to no end. Funny mental image eh? The records as posted on other sites say that she called him a "brat" and a "dumb shit." Honestly, that's not grounds for arrest. McDonald's is private property. Ever heard of freedom of speech? Isn't that one of the core foundations of this country anyhow?

On http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-chat/1956787/posts:
Cherry: Good! Happy to see the police cracking down on people blocking the drive-thru. After illegal immigration, it’s a major problem.


I think that about sums up what I had to say. I guess this cop just didn't have enough donuts that morning. I feel so safe now that police in this country are tackling such important issues on a daily basis. After all, grandmas getting decaf coffees and salt-free fries pose a grave threat to civilians' safety.